tv Key Capitol Hill Hearings CSPAN March 30, 2016 12:00pm-2:01pm EDT
or canadian content. of everything china and mexico and canada export has american content. when you look at a so-called american car, quite likely it will have various parts from all over the world. an iphone that says made in inna, it was only a symbol china, it contains parts from japan, taiwan, the united states and relies on amendment can -- american marketing and ingenuity. all of this apart and removed a menu for -- american manufacturing and the economy from this complex global value chain would not just hurt america, it would hurt the global economy. you would be trying to kill the virus of global trade and, in doing so, kill the host, being the united states economy. host: june, virginia, a
republican. caller: good morning. iwould like to say to scott, am a donald trump supporter, and thereason i am is because 35% tax on corporations. i had a business under jimmy carter. about four years later, ronald reagan came in. what a difference. it is night and day. when anybody talks about lowering the corporate tax and working the rules, and on the trade issue is such a big deal. i think donald trump has his hand on it. host: do you like what donald trump says on trade? caller: i do -- guest: i think it is a great
point. i wish that donald trump focus more on our top tax and regular for a policies and less on china. i wrote a piece late last year about the fact that donald trump's misguided focus on china a lotxico papers over real problems we have in the american economy, whether it be our high corporate tax rate or policies that discourage workers from saving and investing in their own future. or our job training programs that have failed and are crowded -- crowding out private training programs. all of those policies deserve credit and when donald trump talks about -- he upsets is over china and blames china and mexico for all of america's problems. that is where he is wrong. 202-748-8000 --host: lawrence a democrat. caller: thank you for bringing the subject to us.
as a democrat, tying this politically, i have been thinking that donald trump -- if he wins the presidency, the problem he is having now with the republicans, what do you think will happen to trade and american politics if they do not want him now, what will he do with the senate and republicans when it comes to putting forth these great things he says he's going to do? host: go ahead, scott? guest: i missed the first part of the question, could you summarize? and: when it comes to trade all these things donald trump is promising to do, rip up tpp. he said washington is not that crazy about him, even within his own republican party, what is the impact if he gets the nomination and wins, on trade? guest: there are some things a
president trump could do on trade and a lot of things he could not. trade agreements, it is likely that president trump could withdraw the united states from the wto and nafta. what president trump could not do is raise our tariffs in response to any sort of withdrawal from nafta or the wto . under the constitution and u.s. laws, congress has a final say in regulating international commerce. president trump can withdraw us from these deals but cannot raise tariffs on china or mexico. what withdrawing us from those china,ould permit mexico, the european union, every other country in the debbie t o to raise their tariffs in response to us or discriminate against american goods, services, and producers or american investors.
that is an idiotic idea. countries to do whatever they want to us. instead, doing nothing in return. there is an important dose of reality. that ifr issue as -- is president trump did convince congress to raise tariffs on china and mexico to 35% or 45% as he told the new york times, when ecb massive tax on not only -- when you see the massive tax on americans consumers, everything you buy at walmart and target, would go up, and a tax on american manufacturers, more than half of everything we import our machinery and inputs and materials used by american manufacturers and their workers to produce globally competitive products. he is not just taxing american families, but taxing american businesses. that makes no sense. host: would mexico and china win
if they brought a terrorist case before the -- terrorist case before the wto? ms. clinton: guest: it guest: -- guest: it would be the easiest wto case to bring. we have basic international obligations with respect to not ,nly the level of our terrace but whether we can discriminate against individual countries. china would be able to go to the wto and win the right to retaliate against american exports. i did a calculation and found that we are talking about $200 billion of annual tariffs against american goods and services exports are american intellectual property, doing that would cripple the american economy. there were recent economic
analysis that show if donald trump did get his weight on rrifs wets -- way on ta would lose millions of american jobs. once you put reality to his rhetoric, you see what a disaster it is. host: an independent from alabama, good morning. caller: hello? host: question or comment? we are going to move on to tom, illinois, a republican. caller: i am a farmer in the midwest. there are several things that have happened like jimmy carter when he put an embargo on the russians on corn being -- on corn and the market lost one dollar in a day and it did not come back 14 years. my opinion is, i went to a seminar one day and a guy from a corporation that does the
trading with grai with china and japan and foreign countriesn. ourked him, what about embassies? check, there is money that goes into -- not a government agency but an agency courp to promote our around the world -- corn around the world and i asked him how much do they help our market, and he said i do not think one dime. he said, i am the one doing the trading and the chinese and the japanese will do anything in orir power to get a penny two cents off. he says they will call me at any time. host: let's get a response. guest: it is a wonderful point
and something we do not talk about that much, the role of international trade. >> we take you live to harlem, new york city in a campaign event with hillary clinton, accompanied on stage fight senator -- on stage by senator chuck schumer. ♪ >> hillary! hillary! hillary! hillary! hillary! hillary! [applause] schumer: good morning, harlem! good morning, new york! it is so great to be here and i
am so privileged to be able to have the honor of introducing my friend and colleague, hillary clinton -- [applause] who frankly needs no introduction, especially here in harlem. [applause] as new york senator for eight years,and they know her family. when president clinton had the world to choose from to locate his presidential offices, where did he choose? harlem, usa. so, hillary is no stranger here. she is no stranger to the people of new york. we know her. we love her and we cannot wait for her to be president.
[applause] hillary -- >> hillary! hillary! hillary! hillary! hillary! senator schumer: let me share something with you. senator is the only job we have people occupied by two at the same time. hillary and i served together for eight years as senators from new york. well.got to know her when you work with someone not closely, you get to see a person's real soul. what makes them take -- tick.
hillary understands in both an intellectual and heartfelt way, the biggest problems affecting our country. the stagnation of wages and income that has middle-class people, families, struggling to make ends meet. keeping down the millions more who are fighting to get into the middle class. she knows that, she lives that. it is deep in her. more than any candidate in this race, hillary has proven time and time again that, not only does she know this, and feel this, she internalizes the concerns and fears and problems of everyday americans, and then effectively moves to action. getting something done to help. [applause] she instinctively turns her
concern and anger at the plate of the middle class to action. that is what we need. [applause] [no audio] that is what the people of new york no about hillary clinton. that is what i know about hillary clinton. she delivers. [applause] always talk not like we brooklynites talk. when she speaks out, she changes minds, she changes hearts, she moved to action and she changes outcomes. [applause] desk charliele wrangle remembers, i remember, when she first came to new york as a candidate, she started out
with a listening tour and it opened her heart. she took what she learned and moved effectively to create change for her constituents. that is the magic of hillary clinton. translating heartfelt concerns interactions. -- into actions and that's how she delivered for new york state. [applause] a record of a hard-working, effective, tenacious, progressive champion speaks for itself. i remember these things. as first lady, i remember. families who had children caught in a tough circumstance. not eligible for medicaid. the parents cannot afford health care. i saw the passion on her face
when she heard about these things and talked about these things. what did she do? she translated her passion into action and we got the chip program that has helped millions of american children. -- i sawrst it down hearst it down with first responders and union workers who worked on 9/11 when no one else was listening. no one was listening when they said i was feeling sick from the poison that was in the air that they briefed in as they rush to the towers to try and help. stories of lung disease, cancer, their friends were developing after breathing those toxic fumes at ground zero. she did not just listen, she made their fight her fight. of theame the champion
9/11 health insurance act. it would not have happened without hillary clinton and now we provide health care and dignity for those who rushed to the towers. because of this person. [applause] listened to residents and naturalist who worried about the pollution choking our rivers and oceans. she became a champion of cleaning up long island sound year in, year out. she delivered quietly without ,anfare but effectively resources to protect and clean up the pollution in long island sound. was she a fighter. when george bush in 2005 wanted it to privatize social security -- wanted to privatize social security -- [boos] she worked so hard to prevent
the senior citizens hard-earned benefits from being risk in the stock market. she knew social security was one of the most successful anti-poverty programs we ever created and fought to shut that down, and she did this on camera and off. let me tell you one story, hillary knew of the devastation in our communities. communities like this one, the wrong people were getting their hands on guns and killing children. she knew the power of the nra and was undaunted, and i was the sponsor of the brady bill. many people, even in the administration, were afraid, they called me to a meeting at an office late one night. they said, chuck schumer, you are going to hurt us if you push for this brady law. we should not do it, even though
it may be the right thing to do. all the big shots. only two people stood up and said, we have to do this, it is the right thing, one was leon panetta and the other was, the loudest, strongest voice that we had to do the brady bill was hillary rodham clinton. [applause] >> hillary! hillary! hillary! hillary! senator schumer: because of senator clinton, tens of thousands of people are walking the streets alive today because of the brady law present -- prevented them from getting guns.
listened, she spoke up, and she changed the lives of millions in her career. we know that hillary delivers. we also know she is not finished delivering yet. [applause] knows that unions have been the most effective vehicle in american history for raising people into the middle class. she knows the hard right wing wants to get rid of unions. help. fighting to she is fighting for an increase in the minimum wage. she is taking on those who are attacking those against family leave. that if mr.elieve got to pick the next court justice they would
get rid of unions. they would undo the voting rights act and what allow poisonous money to cascade into our system and ruin it. stakes reminder of the in this election, not just fun and games. this is the future of america. the supreme court hangs in the balance. we have to ensure that hillary as president so we have a good, strong supreme court. [applause] we cannot have the vision of the other party. >> madam president! madam president! matter president! senator schumer: i want to conclude by comparing those of
us in new york and hillary to the other side. ae other side is peddling divisive, nasty strategy. real americans are being hurt by other americans, the others. people from other religions, shores, colors, creeds, income levels. they think that by dividing america, pitting one against the other, their party will conquer. hillary knows that america is the only america when we celebrate our diversity rather than center it. -- that is when we are americans. it is not only deep in her bones, it is new york. [applause] new york is a microcosm of people from all over. every country, every creed,
every walk of life. you do not have to leave harlem to see it. we see it everywhere, in every corner of new york. hillary knows you can walk from one side of 1 25th street to the other and meet people from every continent on the face of this earth. you can start your day with chicken from sylvia's and finish autos out of san juan and eat a bagel for lunch. hillary knows that america is at its best when we all walked together. that we are stronger precisely because of our diversity, not weaker. she is infused with this bedrock new york value, an american value. unum.ibus
out of many, one. one new york, one america. what hillary clinton in the white house, every american, black, white, latino, asian, christian, jew, muslim, immigrant, nativeborn, every american will have a progressive champion in the oval office listening to them and fighting for them and delivering for them. [applause] hillary! hillary! hillary! hillary! hillary! senator schumer: she did it as new york senator and she will and can do it again as the next president of the united states of america. i give you hillary rodham clinton.
[applause] >> hillary! hillary! hillary! ms. clinton: wow! thank you. my goodness. i tell you what, it is a thrill to be live at the apollo with all of you. [applause] wonderful to be back home in new york. it is extraordinary to stand here and look out at this crowd, please be seated. you can jump up again from time to time. [applause] i am sitting here -- standing here looking out and seeing so many friends.
so many people i have worked with, i have had the privilege of knowing. it is a special treat to have my former colleague and partner, someone who i hope and expect will not only be the leader of but,emocrats in the senate if we do our part, he will be the majority leader of the senate. [applause] i am so grateful to check -- chuck, we had eight years working side-by-side, dealing with problems and opportunities. that experience was one of the great honors of my life. --ant to make knowledge acknowledgment longtime friend, the person i give credit to for starting main on this journey -- starting the on this journey.
that is congressman charlie e.angle -- rangl i see the manhattan borough brewer.t, gale and to all the other elected official, friends, supporters, i love coming to harlem. this community has made me and my family feel like a part of your family. i am so grateful for your support and friendship. with your help we are going to win the primary here on april 19. [applause] then we are going to win the democratic nomination and the election in november. [applause] short summaryu a
of where we are. i have competed across our country. i am honored to have received nearly 9 million votes. [applause] than a million more than donald trump has received. and 2.5 million more than senator sanders. we are on the right track. [applause] but, i do not have to tell you, this is a wild election year. i am not taking anything or anyone for granted. we will work for every vote and every part of this state just like i did when i ran for the senate. because new yorkers took a chance for me and i will never forget that.
you have always had my back. i have always tried to have yours. when i think back to the eight ,ventful years that i serve you there were some hard times. but we pulled together. none of us who lived through 9/11 and its aftermath will never forget the lives lost. lower manhattan in ruins. toxic dust and debris raining down. and the many examples of heroism we saw, the firefighters and police officers who risked their .ives to help save others the construction workers and emergency personnel and volunteers who spent long hours on the smoldering piles searching for survivors and
months more clearing the site. all of the new yorkers who lined up to donate blood, who reached out to families in a million quiet, decent ways. they projected a sense of strength and unity that comforted the whole country. , new yorkersettled rolled up our sleeves and we got to work. like former fire commissioner next up at a -- nick, who we lost last week, a great leader. a champion for his firefighters, for children, and for the city. new york wanted to rebuild so and i thought for the federal funding to get it done. -- fought for the federal funding to get it done and we can see the results. lower manhattan has risen higher
and more magnificently. when first responders and others started suffering adverse health effects from 9/11, a lot of people in washington did not i kept raising the alarm. i hope hearing. that try to get the attention of the epa and bush administration. they just brushed us off, acting as though it wasn't anything out of the ordinary. then i got to work without congressional delegation. to get our first responders and others the health care that they needed. mewas really important to and i am so grateful that these the drug a act is now ensuring that people who did so much for us are going to be taken care of their entire lives. [applause]
but while all of this was going on, republicans, led by george bush, started squandering the surplus they had inherited from my husband's to terms on massive tax cuts for the wealthy. they set a reckless fiscal and regulatory course that eventually tanked our entire economy. trickle-down economics made life harder for working people here in our states. [applause] so, we had to get creative, didn't we? we worked with small businesses to help them use technology to reach customers. to attract high-tech research more goodo create paying jobs. i connected chefs and restaurant to farmers and winemakers in the hudson valley and finger
lakes. we were looking for anything that would create more jobs, more markets and more opportunities. more support for teachers and schools so that all of our kids could get a good education, no matter where they live. [applause] children in every borough of the city deserve the same chance to succeed as children in westchester, or on long island, or anywhere else in america. [applause] really for me it's simple, when we invest in our children's education we invest in our country's future and in a stronger economy for all of us. things i one of the love about new york is that new yorkers have always believed that if you work hard and you do your part you should be able to
get ahead and stay ahead. that is how i saw my job is your senator. help make that possible for as many people as i could. boy, did i learn a lot serving the people of this state. again asking for your confidence in your vote. -- and your vote. [cheers and applause] [chanting hillary] you know -- [chanting hillary continues] you know, i think -- tohink the easiest way describe what my campaign is , it's about breaking down the barriers that are holding
people back from sharing in the promise of america. here is what i believe. anyone running for president this year faces three big tests. you deliver results that improve the lives of people? [applause] second, can you keep us safe? [applause] you bring our country together again? [cheers and applause] every candidate should be judged by these tests. making it a real difference for people and families comes first. americans everywhere are hungry for solutions. good jobsate more with rising incomes by investing in manufacturing and small business. infrastructure and clean energy. enough clean energy to power
every home in america in 10 years. we will make companies that shift jobs overseas give back the tax breaks they got here at home. [cheers and applause] if they try to move their headquarters to a foreign country to skip out on that tax tells, we will slap a new exit tax on them. then we will put that money to in the communities and the people that were left behind. we can break down the barriers holding back the people in this economy. isn't it time for quality affordable childcare, early childhood education, and paid family leave? isn't it time for raising the minimum wage nationwide?
[applause] and isn't it time finally to guarantee equal pay for the women who work? [cheers and applause] ]chanting you see, i think we are lucky in new york. because these are goals that the governor and the mayor are fighting for and achieving here. i will fight for them as president. you know, republicans always say when i talk like this that i'm playing the gender card. my response is pretty simple.
if fighting for equal pay and paid leave is playing the gender card, then deal me in. [chanting " deal me in"] think we canlso break down the barriers holding back on young people. especially the burden of student debt that makes it so hard for them. [applause] under my plan, you won't have to borrow a dime for tuition at any public college or university. you will be able to refinance the debt that you already have, just like a mortgage or a car loan.
i've been told of this has listed millions people thousands of dollars. we can break down the root -- the barriers of systemic racism. we can invest in communities of color, reform our broken criminal justice system, replace pipelinel to prison with a cradle to college pipeline. [cheers and applause] we can reject discrimination , like the bt people shameful law passed in north carolina. [cheers and applause] we can defend our rights, our civil rights and voting rights, workers rights and women's rights, gay rights, rights for people with disabilities. we are not going to let the
republicans turn us back and rip away the progress we've made. that starts by standing with president obama and demanding that republican senators do their job and vote for a nominee on the supreme court. [chanting "do your job"] -- i believe we can break down all these barriers and more if we stand together. if we work together. for me it's all about getting results. you know, when i joined with parents, doctors, and community leaders to take on the epidemic of children's asthma right here in harlem, it wasn't about making a point. it was about making a difference.
as your senator and in every job i've ever held i have worked my heart out to even the odds that have often been stacked against too many people. some folks may have the luxury to hold out for the perfect, but a lot of americans are hurting right now. they need the good and they need it today. you know, when you get knocked down like you din life and in politics, you have to get back up and keep on working to make people's lives better. when the insurance industry blocked the push for universal american,e for every as chuck said, i partnered with americans and democrats to create the children's health insurance programs. that helped a lot of kids and families here in new york and 8 million children across america.
so, when any candidate comes before you, that candidate owes it to you to be clear about how we are actually going to deliver. my opponent and i share many of the same goals. but some of his ideas for how to get there won't pass. others just won't work. that means that people won't get the health that -- the help that they need in deserve. that is what it is supposed to be about. my opponent says we are not thinking big enough. well, this is new york. nobody dreams bigger than we do. [cheers and applause] cityhis -- but this is a that likes to get things done. that is what we want from our poor -- from our president, too. a president that will help to break down the barriers holding
down americans. not just some. i take a backseat to no one when it comes to taking on income inequality. tonow how important it is close that gap. to rebuild the middle class. but i will tell you this. it's also important to take on racial inequality and discrimination in all of its forms. [applause] [chanting "hillary"] to stand uportant to the gun lobby and fight for common sense gun safety reform. [cheers and applause] you know, i remember -- i remember that meeting. i remember the meeting that chuck was talking about. people were getting cold feet.
folks talk about all the washington.bies in look, there are a bunch of them. powerfulno one is more than the gun lobby. i understood why some members of congress were saying -- my gosh, we can't do this. some folks in the white house and the administration were getting nervous. i thought then and i believe now, whatever we can do to save lives, we must do. i remember how hard it was to get the brady bill passed. my opponent voted against five times, as i recall. he has sided with the nra on the important votes of the last 20 years. this isn't a single issue country. we need a president who can do all arts of the job. because the second test is keeping us safe.
at a time when terrorists are plotting new attacks and countries like russia, china, and iran are making moves to making american net -- those, protecting american national security cannot be an afterthought. our next president has to be .ust as passionate i will do both. when you vote on april 19 in new york, you are voting for a president and a commander-in-chief. [chanting "i'm with her"] let's face it, on the republican side what we are hearing is truly scary. when donald trump talks casually about using torture and allowing more countries to get nuclear weapons, or when ted cruz calls for treating american muslims
like criminals and racially profiling predominantly muslim neighborhoods, that doesn't make them sound strong. it makes them sound in over their heads. you know, loose cannons tend to misfire. in a dangerous world that's not a gamble that we can afford. but the test of the republican candidates fails most spectacularly when we get to the third test. because instead of bringing us together, they seemed -- they divide usmined to even further. their entire campaigns are based on pitting us versus them. one of my personal heroines, my angelina, said -- she has done a lot that is worth remembering, but she said this -- when
someone shows you who they are, believe them. [applause] these republican candidates are showing us exactly who they are and what they would do as president. and we should believe them. to donald trump. he plays coy with white supremacists. he says demeaning and degrading things about women. he wants to round up millions of latino immigrants and kick them out of the united states. a nation built by immigrants. he wants to ban all muslims from entering america. on religiousnded freedom. wrong, and it's goes against everything new york and america stand for. [applause]
joys of my time at senator was traveling across this city and state. new york is home to 20 million people. we don't all look the same. we don't all sound the same or worship the same either. but we pull together. when a candidate for president says that we can solve america's ,roblems by building walls discriminating against people based on their religion and turning against each other -- well, new yorkers know better. >> that's right. [cheers and applause] : our diversity is a strength, not a weakness. new york represents the best of america. together, we can face down the worst. look around you, you will see a rising generation of young tolerant,e diverse,
and connected than any we have ever seen. [cheers and applause] spirit.d build on that not squash it. i believe with all my heart that reach for love and kindness instead of bluster and bigotry, there's nothing we can do if we put our minds to it. [cheers and applause] let me leave you with one story that says it all. was born inman pakistan and moved to america with his parents when he was 13 months old. any other new york family. mom was a middle school teacher. dad owned a store. mohammed grew up, studied biochemistry at queens college. got trained as a paramedic and became a cadet with the nypd.
wasn't sure what he wanted to do with his life, but he knew he wanted to help people. he was just 23 when terrorists flew planes into the world trade center. when he heard the news, he didn't hesitate. he grabbed his bag andbad -- medical headed straight to the site. like so many others, he died trying to save total strangers. because his bought -- body was buried deep under the rubble, neither his family nor the police department new what had happened to them. for months he was considered missing. man wondered at this young with a muslim name and a background in science could have had anything to do with the attacks. once people knew, they realized
how long they had gotten it. he wasn't a terrorist. he was a hero. a hero'sgave him funeral with full police honors. because, as his mother said -- [applause] cadet mother said, this and paramedic ran towards the burning towers when everyone was running away. immigrant.s an he was a new yorker. he was an american and he died trying to help others live. thatup to us to make sure his and so many others sacrifice still counts for something. do that by standing up against bigotry in all its forms. by celebrating heroism wherever we find it and doing our part to serve others and make our communities that are and
stronger. that is what countless new yorkers do every day in a million quiet ways. so, we are going to stand up for the values that make new york great and make america great. [cheers and applause] .on't forget, don't ever forget this is the greatest country on earth and we are going to fight for it, fight for our future. please join me in this campaign. let's have each other's backs. lift each other up. break down all the barriers holding us back, reaching the full potential that we should realize. thank you all so much. thank you, new york. you are incredible. [cheers and applause]
♪ like a small boat on the ocean sending big waves into motion like how a single word can make a heart open i might only have one match but i can make an explosion this is my fight song take back my life song prove i'm alright song my power's turned on i'll play my fight song and i don't really care if nobody else believes 'cause i've still got a lot of fight left in me ♪ ♪
>> hillary clinton, campaigning in new york city today at the apollo theater in harlem ahead of new york's april 19 primary. with that primary coming up, her competition, senator bernie sanders, also in new york city in the south bronx. we will have it live on c-span two. thursday,ve that bernie sanders as our road to the white house coverage in 10 years here on the c-span network.
coming up next week, it's the wisconsin primary on april 5. you can look forward to more road to the white house coverage from wisconsin here on the c-span network to this weekend. a look at the recent terrorist attacks in belgium and the issue of terrorism and refugees in europe. mr. falk: good afternoon, i'm jim falk, and thank you so much for joining us on this international perspective suit -- series. i'm very thankful to jo at pegasus bank. joe, would you please stand? pegasus bank is our major sponsor for this program. our organization is very focused on education with high school havents and today we students from horn high school, parish episcopal school, and
uplift williams preparatory. if i could ask all the students to please stand and be recognized? i hope you have hard questions. [applause] our program today could not be more timely or relevant. just two days after the tragic terrorist attack in brussels, at a time when thousands of refugees are fleeing syria and east, we we had elections in germany where democraticmerkel's party suffered defeats in three states. in fact, the leading newspaper called the results black sunday for conservatives. conversely, right-wing parties also experienced increased turnout with voter sightings of refugee crisis is the reason for their votes. with such uncertainty, you now know why we are so fortunate to stelzenmuller with us.
she earned her master's at the kennedy school of government. and her doctorate. she is truly someone who has a footprint into continents. her essays and articles have been published in both german and english and have been put into a wide number of publications, including "public affairs" and "the financial times." she has been a journalist and director and fellow and governor of the [indiscernible] , as well as a fellow for the world swedish society for world sciences. ladies and gentlemen, which you give a warm welcome to dr. stelzenmuller.
[applause] r.. stelzenmuller: thank you so much. the you for this fabulously warm welcome in the beautiful state of texas. or third visit to texas in my lifetime. as always, far too short. i can always say that i'm thrilled to get out of the beltway. , one ofway of warning my life streams has been to spend a summer at a dude ranch. now that i've moved to america, i have felt slightly closer to that. dear mel, dear jim, dear mr. coyne, dear hosts, dear ladies and gentlemen, dear students. as to the students, i don't know what you have done to merit this punishment. i hope the food is making up for it. as you will have expected, the
talk and about to give you is not the one i was planning to give you a week or even four days ago. the title i gave our hosts when they asked for one was storm over europe. general in many issues to the middle east conflict and refugee crisis and the question of what's been written. britain andof as we know of this it. just two days ago on tuesday morning during the morning rush hour at the busy belgium capital airport in brussels and etta subway station near the european parliament. the state department issued a blanket warning for americans traveling in all of europe. a certain candidate was suggesting that none of this would have happened if the right
people have been water boarded at the right time. talk and i'm my going to take this terrible incident as my starting point and i will discuss your questions before i take them, which am sure there will be many because many things will be left truly oned as this is of the most complicated public policy issues in europe. what happened tuesday in brussels? why did it happen there? done to and needs to be fix terrorism in europe? what does it mean for america and relations between united states and europe? yeah, i have 25 minutes. [laughter] you will find that i make certain stark assertions that you can feel free to question in q&a. to say up front, i have no easy answers and i can guarantee you that none of them
involve waterboarding, nor will you get them if you water board me. these really are complex issues that cut to the most serious problems of national and international governance of our time. who is a that anyone rat catcher trying to play to our worst fears to get us to give them something -- money, bank accounts, pin numbers, whatever. i hope that i can set out some propositions for further discussion at the end. let me start with my first question -- what happened this tuesday? three days ago bombs were detonated within one hour of each other during the morning rush hour at the busy airport in the belgian capital of brussels, as well as in maelbeek, as i just said. bomb was particularly large, of interest to terrorism experts. amid the wreckage police found unexploded bombs.
died today 31 people have as a result, including two of the bombers. the fourth appears to still be on the run. more than 100 -- 140 people were left injured. as far as we know the traders were of second-generation north african descent. members of the islamic state for taken responsibility the attacks. authorities are saying that four men carried out the attacks. three of whom are dead. there appears to be a connection with the paris bomb attacks of november, 2015. the most recent case in which a european capital city was at its of such anlocus attack. because of the size and scale of the organization, it appears increasingly likely that there was a much larger cell and
network behind the four men that is very likely to transcend national borders. while i.s. has taken responsibility, it may be quite a while before we learn more about the motivation of these individuals. it seems likely that this was brought forth because of the arrest and ongoing interrogation of the terror suspects on the friday before last week in brussels. these attacks were likely brought forward in retaliation or two preempt detection. and --o preempt the text detection. most of the muslim minority there originate from north african countries, but also farther afield. haswhat it's worth, it other large minorities from congo, belgium, and burundi.
the capital is also the de facto capital of europe, hosting as it does the organs of the european the european parliament, counsel, and nato headquarters. embassiesseat of many and think tanks. thousands of americans work and live there. the state department has a very, very large mission to the european union. as a city, brussels is kind of an acquired taste. i've been there many times. not least of which is its chaotic urban planning. it's casual public services -- in him being polite here. and it's truly remarkable overall scruffy this.
it also has these quirky charms that envelop you slowly in a warm embrace. a vibrant culture, friendly inhabitants, attractive housing latterllent food, the being something that the belgians take extremely seriously. much like the big apple, it's citizens defended fiercely. to call it a hellhole as some has -- have done, is a mark against it. those of us who know and love it think of it as europe's beating heart. i have been there more times than i can count. for work, to see friends, and those categories are increasingly overlapping. i was at a conference there last weekend and i flew out of the international airport on sunday, lest in 48 hours before the attack. most of my acquaintances were safe, as i know, but to close friends were in a taxi queue at the airport when the bombs went off.
loved ones,t a friends, acquaintances, neighborhoods, and cities. it's also about europe as a civilization, policy, and project. the attacks of tuesday morning, like previous attacks in europe, are an attack on all of europe in all europeans. which brings me to my second question -- why did this happen? and why in brussels? as i said, it's going to be a while before we learn about the individual motivations of the four guys who carried the suitcases and made them detonate. but the larger question is, of course -- why do so many european muslims appear to be so vulnerable to recruitment, to suicide missions from the islamic state -- reviled, after all, as admit -- misanthropic anti-islamic death cult in large portions of the muslim and arab
world. after all, if followed up on a bomb attack by al qaeda and other groups intending to strike at the heart of european life. i will just remind you about madrid, london, paris twice. to read some of the analysis published in recent days, most alienated,eas are underemployed, and ghettoized. i would beg to disagree. the huge majority of the muslims in europe are decent, hard-working people who are often citizens of the countries in the second or third generation and feel very little affinity to the countries that their grandparents or parents emigrated from, usually to seek a better life for them on children. they despise organizations like i.s. and al qaeda. that's important to keep in mind. still, it's equally true that ghettoized and alienated communities exist in europe and they are a problem.
very broadly, the reason that they exist should never be generalized, but there are concurrent set -- factors come combined. postcolonial resentment. ,itizenship without education inclusion, or economic opportunity. alternatively, guestworker status meant only to last for a few years and solidified into multigenerational permanents without inclusion into society. legality a life of the in daily fear of being picked up and forced to return to a worse life. the fact that hundreds of thousands of an coming for decades speaks to the abject misery of the conditions they left behind. also european failure. add to this, more than one million refugees currently streaming to europe from syria and afghanistan, chaos, poverty, and oppression, and you have a truly potent mix for trouble.
my guess is that a great arerity of these refugees bent only on sanctuary, not on creating harm. but they are easily used as cover. no doubt some of them are vulnerable as potential tools. some may in reality be terrorist infiltrators. this is something that we have to be aware of and is far as i know, our security services are. but the very alliance of the situation is of course heightened by the vulnerabilities of lack of from then capabilities technical. you understand what i mean. the countries that these people migrate to from declining maybe ins and -- eastern europe, simply complete lack of experience, whereas integration and ethnic diversity over 40 years of soviet communist rule. in thes all exacerbated last decade by the division created by the global financial crisis of 2008.
some countries are seeing a slow recovery, but others are still hardships they created. belgium, unfortunately, is something of a special case. , themer colleague of mine former counterterrorism director for the state department had a recent political piece in which he said that 470 belgian muslims had gone to fight in syria or iraq out of a population of 660,000, making it the top supplier of militants in western europe. he also had another important point, the deep dysfunctionality of belgium, because of the ,thnic group differences paralyzed by a domestic political crisis that ran from 2007 22011. not only did belgium not have the kind of government the could
have set up energetic policies or stronger security services, for 541 days it didn't even have a government. that was longer than it took the form a government in iraq. so, some authors who have far greater expertise that i do about it -- matters of counterintelligence, like david ignatius at "the washington post," have said that cutting that shows that cutting things or even more cutting things about their intelligence and police work. i cannot presume to judge their analysis but i do suspect that there are no quick fixes and, in fact, no fixes at all that will work in less a deeper governance issues are addressed. another way to say this is that this could all only happen in belgium. right? most of us in europe, it did in my own country, germany, are looking at all of this and wondering whether we, having
dodged a bullet's time, when will be the day that we don't? to,that leads me organically, my third question. the perfect i had answer to this, i would not be standing here. beavering away in some capital. but based on the conversations ,'ve had on the work that i do let me start with a sort of, if you will, and oblique critique. this discussion always has the element of the hypothetical or counterfactual. about what needs to be done. fully they had been able to deploy more surveillance capabilities against what was clearly a brewing jihadi threat.
if only angela had that opened the journalist -- the borders. if only obama had bombed a sod. of all europeans have taken more responsibility for peace and stability in the middle east. if only all muslims could be sent out of the country until we could figure out what's going on . many of these if only's are not helpful as singular policy prescriptions. by not helpful and being polite. they have a kernel of truth, -- but the the roots roots of the problem are far more complex. i think that it's already a start, if we understand that any approach to containing, managing, and minimizing the problem may be as good as it gets patches simultaneously on three levels. the nationstate, europe, and
europe's relations with the rest of the world. the national levels, to begin with. it's easy as a german to stand in texas and say that belgium needs to address its security problems and do better at integrating muslim minorities. it does. but as we ought to know, all of us, and certainly in germany from our experiences elsewhere, or it might case, nationbuilding and democracy building at home, which we had to do quite a lot of after 1945, throwing money at is -- of what is essentially a governance problem will not only not solve the problem, it will often make it worse. as shocking as this may sound, i think that what we now in the west have to understand and face is that we have mistakenly perhaps pursue and that western-style democracies are essentially and fundamentally stable. that pluralism, representative --titutions, inclusive is
inclusive economies and fundamental contracts are things that we can take for granted. they are capable of self from -- self repairing. i believe that if we are honest with ourselves, this is simply not true. the 2008 financial crisis and technological change has brought huge fragmenting powers and pressures to bear on the nationstate. i have to say that one of the in movieelling analysis at that on this is that of george packer. chronicling the lives of a button or so americans over half a decade, describing how their lives are affected by things at subprime mortgage crisis, deindustrialization, and a host of other factors. the common theme is the cheapening and delegitimization of representative politics. between the rich
and the poor, hollowing out of the middle class, and despite best efforts. i thought this not to make it digg it would be cheap, but because this book could have been written about any country in europe, including my own. and i hope that it will be. the problems he describes our problems we are going to have to deal with. for the first time asthma -- in my life as a foreign security analyst, i spent time thinking about external security and i have come to understand our essential preconditions and limitations on the ability of governments to make an effective foreign and security policy. this is where we are at and it is deeply serious. people thinking deeply about the internal affairs of the country's where the policy people are coming together. in fact, i would -- let me give
you another avenue. somewhatof belgium is, the context of the financial crisis was something that they described as contagion. at the transatlantic level because of the deep integration of two economies, any backer will know, but it was much worse the vulnerability of one state meant on ability of all. forced to say things like -- starve itself out. i didn't personally like the and is unlikely to
lead to lasting reforms. reforms that would benefit rural citizens. -- normal citizens. the truth is that people are struggling on one level or and it's noteserve clear if this is a contest they think about puerto rico in ways thate fall we haven't paid enough attention to. and the irony and dilemma of the
neighbors is that there is -- in terms of security is guardedly see the role for and that said,ty then't want to give you u.k. from germany and the netherlands has really upgraded their intelligence and police capabilities as well as their cooperation and intelligence sharing with each other. andrity has events in this
there were rained soon still are above all they are very technical different institutions with different capabilities. --this seems weird to you you would have the same language, although i wonder some time. and given how much we are different, it's astounding what we have been able to accomplish together. and then there is the shared poverty and that some
of our cultures, not just andern european post-soviet others that were proto-, nearly fascist dictatorships have successfully become democracies in the course of being members of the european union, or in order to become. these are laudable achievements and give life to the project still. it's easy to stand here, or in , to say -- we need more european integration. more intelligent service. the piers and security union. these are really appealing ideas that would be lovely and a good thing. personally, i'm a pragmatic integrationist. i deeply leave that if you want to preserve the project under the conditions of globalization, as the external shocks that we're seeing, financial, refugees, and other, we are
going to have to have deeper integration. on fiscal policy, energy, managing refugees, and yes, domestic security. we will need this in order to survive such a project. anyone who champions this cause or tells europeans what they cannot do has to be aware that such ideas do has to be aware that such ideas have fierce opponents within europe. for example, in poland or hungary, which did not escape thinking, to their become part of another supranational enterprise. people forget her bed reasons thing not much different from the -- for good or bad reasons, think not much different from the warsaw pact. if we do go ahead with this, this could add impetus to the forces that want to break out of the eu, most notably the brits,
who want to hold a referendum on eu membership in november. there are some who are wondering, if in the case of a brexit, they should create a smaller union. i worry deeply about this because this will lead other poorer, more vulnerable countries behind and it will make it more difficult for them to catch up. i am personally not a big fan of this. this kind of thinking shows you just how complicated these questions are. so in a politician ellis to promote this kind of thing,
deeper cooperation or deeper integration, is going to have to pursue with extreme caution and make that case very persuasively. a couple of words on europe and its neighborhood, it is also self-evident that your can't help to resolve the issues, islamist terrorism, without itself playing a larger role in the security and system -- instability in africa and the middle east. several european countries are for dissipating in the u.s.-led coalition efforts in syria and iraq. by germans, my own country, have been training the test america, the kurds. --t is a truly starting the that is a truly startling development. time to is not the start on a comments critique of the middle east. but i will make to reservations.
make two observations. it has forced us, the u.s. and also europe coming to some -- and to read some very difficult partners. we are making compromises with some very unpleasant people. let there be no mistake. arguably, one of the reasons why we are now dealing with an increased return of so-called foreign fighters, returning to europe to civil unrest is precisely the fact that the inlition has been successful denying the i.s. a territorial state. i wrote down a lot of walking points here that i will spare
you. be short and sustained. or any of you who read the dan benjamin piece in politico or otherwise studied this, you will be aware that the u.s. has a far more limited and manageable domestic islamist problem, if there is at all in europe. for the simple reason that american muslims tend to be better integrated. inre has been more work done doing that. i think there has been a greater attempt at holding trust between muslim communities and governments and local communities. there is very little truly uncontrolled immigration. -- our problem is not quite your problem. we don't share the same issues in quite the same way. you are also entitled, i think, this is something i have felt
for a very long time -- you are to take to ask of us care of our problems more than we have in the past, to shoulder ownburden not only for our security, but you have a right to expect us to help you bear the burden of protecting the international order that all of our order and peace depends on around the world. let me add one final point. you have legitimate elsewhere the world your editor justin you european commitment care of your neighborhood. you have other things to do elsewhere. in complete sympathy i have complete
sympathy for americans who are wary of war. there are coated reasons for america to stay engaged in europe because many of our concerns are your concerns, too. stability in the middle east, stability of energy surprise death supplies. the relationship with russia, what happens to russia, these are first order strategic concerns for america, of course. deal with that, to share the burden, to take on a greater responsibility for all that is not just a strategic interest for us. it is also one of yours. it is are we have significant overlap. and since one of the host is also the american jewish committee, the security of israel is also an interest we have. a burning concern. one where we would want to work together. for those of you who do business with europeans, i don't have to
remind you that the economies are integrated. through investment, jobs, plants, factories, you name it. what happens in europe has an impact on the american economy and vice versa. of course, finally, i feel it is not need to be said, but i will anyway, we share important values. there is nobody else that shares your values the same way we do. and vice versa. i think in many ways we are truly bound at the hip. i would say even in a day and age where hard power does not go as far as it used to, having good allies who share the same values and who can handle results and problems effectively is a good thing to have, even for a superpower like america. so in some i think there is a great deal we have to talk about and to be worried about
together. i think there is a great deal that we can ask you for advice about and use your help for. one thing is certain, only if europe resolves its own security dilemmas will we be apple to join the united states in providing stability and security on a global level. we need to do the have a lift -- heavy lifting ourselves. we need coordinate with you because some of -- so many of our interests overlap. one final point valid for all of us, what be what the terrorist once more than anything else is for us to overreact severely. in other words, to act, to deny our own values. to deny values that inform our constitutionality.
for the values that make us legitimate at home and aboard -- and abroad. they want to use that as an excuse for the next attack. if we betray those values while fighting, we have lost the game. thank you very much. i look forward to your questions. [applause] >> we will take questions from the audience. before we do that, we have a tradition to give a student the first question. sabrina from the parish of episcopal school. she says here in the u.s. there has been a lot of conversation about nader and the cost to the -- about nato and the cost of the american people. is it still important in europe? why has it not paid a more decisive in role in addressing the problems associated with terrorism? dr. stelzenmuller: that is a good question. it is not as though the candidate was the first to question the value of nato to america.
there is a whole school of realist thinking in american political thought he goes back to the beginning of the cold war the questions that. that is legitimate. and it is legitimate to expect us to have an answer for it. unfortunately the first sentence is, it is complicated. nato was invented as the military armor of the transatlantic alliance to deal with one threat. the threat emanating from russia during the cold war to contain and deter it. at the time when can -- when security that i used to call overkill studies, and other words you are counting divisions, warheads, and tanks and trying to calculate how much you would have to and need to
deter the other one from acting first. with the resurgence of aggression from russia in the last two years, particularly the annexation of crimea, let there be no mistake, the for minting of unrest in europe through what the intelligence call hybrid warfare, trolling on social media, funding a fascist parties, undermining of legitimacy of politicians and media, that has acquired this new urgency. but a slightly new -- the emphasis has shifted slightly. we still need old-fashioned territorial defense. we still need to be able to deter the russians from ever thinking they could possibly ever cross the line into nato territory. that is the biggest redline there is, there can be no question that is nonnegotiable.
which is why, and head to the summit in warsaw in july this year, people are planning feverishly to make sure that nato and the preparations are adequately serious and that is conveyed to russia. nato still has a purpose there. it is very important. if nato were not there, i do not want to thank -- think what things would look like. that said, i also think within that context europeans need to carry more weight. to some degree we are. the germans are saying they are increasing their defense budget by a staggering amount. we are participating in reassurance efforts. i will not bore you with details. phere is a great deal of um
being put behind that effort. the question of using nato against terrorist is more difficult because as i tried to explain, the terrorist problem is a domestic problem in europe. nato is not -- has addressed border threats. terrorist are essentially a threat to deal with by police. there is not much you can do with tanks. the other problem is that there have been internal discussions about nato -- in nato between states whether it would make sense to use nato as a framework of the attacks on isis. to prevent them from gaining a territorial foothold in the middle east and terrifying the rest of the region into submission. i think the coalition of the willing that is currently running that operation is an
expression of an unspoken decision to not go down that route. nato's membership is so large with its 27, 28? this is embarrassing. i think it is 28. it is far easier to marshal support politically for something as obvious as a territorial threat on nato's borders. than for strikes by fighter planes and special forces. supported by intelligence deep in the middle east. that is politically in many ways so sensitive. it is also sensitive for other middle eastern governments that i suspect you would not find a great deal in doha or even tel aviv for a nato operation that would after i.s.. that was a somewhat wonky explanation.
the bottom line is there is a good reason for nato to still exist. don't expect that would be solving all security problems. jim falk: let's take questions from the audience. >> what will happen to these refugees scattered in europe? dr. stelzenmuller: i sometimes wonder if i know the current policy. it is so difficult to understand just what is happening at what level. i think that is true, even in europe. it is also true the number of european or eu level approaches have failed. such as an attempt spearheaded by the germans to get every eu country to agree to take and -- in refugees, where particularly eastern european countries said they would not do it. after the polish government, which had promised to take in
600 said, we're not doing that. at any given moment this is a bit of a kaleidoscope. i think it is going to be a mixture of a number of approaches. trying to integrate people who we think we can integrate. there are good reasons for doing that, including demographic. we are trying to close down the illegal trade route. the trafficking route across the mediterranean which has led to so many tragic losses. with this new agreement with turkey where we are saying we will ask turkey to take refugees that came illegally. but her every refugee became legal we will take one that has escaped. that is an attempt to dry up the trafficking networks.
there are so many obstacles on so many levels that most icy are saying it will never work. i am hoping it will. i think of the many plans i have seen, this is an intelligent way of trying to get this. the reality is that we are only going to be able to integrate a small minority of the people. a number will be sent back either immediately or after, hopefully, conditions in their countries of origin become less violent. just by way of example, if that sounds cruel, what happened -- this happened during a past war. one of the orchestrator's of the bosnian genocide was sentenced to 40 years in prison today.
i can say, deservedly. i covered those hearings. he truly is one of the worst war criminals that europe has seen this century. those refugees came from the hundreds of thousands. from war-torn yugoslavia in the 1990's. germany took in 300,000. which by our standards, was the biggest historically. a small number of those remained. the largest went back after the dayton agreement in 1995. that enable people to go back. some were pushed to go back. i accompanied some. the reality is that the dayton peace accords have led to something good. croatia is one of the parties of -- the states the developed -- they are a member of the european union. the 28th.
serbia, also a major war party is on its way to the bishop. -- membership. sometimes, unlikely as it may seem, at the time that one speaks of these things, it is possible for conflicts to end and peace to return. i admit that in syria, that is hard to imagine. that is why i suspect that we may have to work a little harder at integrating syrian refugees than others. the neighboring states, turkey, jordan, and lebanon are buckling under the strain. we need to take some of that off. otherwise, we will just have additional problems on our hands this is not resolved in my view by putting up bridges. that is impossible in europe. our borders are too long and complicated. they are not defensible. jim falk: we have time for two more questions.
>> i have spent a lot of time in europe in the military and also as an international executive. you said something a little while ago which i think is important, that was the matter of shared values. shared values should be looked at carefully both in europe and the u.s.. going specifically to the problem we are facing today, i am reminded of a very famous meeting that took place shortly after world war ii by the -- by chancellor adenauer and i believe president degaulle, at the end of the conference, they walked to the cathedral hand in hand, knelt at the altar and asked god for forgiveness for the conflicts between germany and france. that was the beginning of a conference that called for germans graduating from top
schools to spend their last year in france, and for frenchman spending their college years in france to spend their last year in germany. it was so they could get to know each other. i was in germany and france and i met people from both areas who had never gone outside of their own village. to them, the germans -- anyhow, the question i have is this -- should not france and germany be leaders in getting this effort together in europe and moving forward? dr. stelzenmuller: i can only a that what you describe is still alive and well. i am a beneficiary of that. i grew up speaking german and english because i was a foreign service brat. german foreign service. my parents thought by the time i was ready for elementary school
i would be bored with english. they put me into a bilingual german and french school. i have been going back and forth. the relationship between germany and france is incredibly close. the same is true of poland. my father was a junior speechwriter for the chancellor. he was a hero in our house because he went to his knees in warsaw, and begged for forgiveness. nazis had left paris while they tried to tear apart warsaw. the stuff that we did to the pope and eastern europeans on many levels is unforgivable. that is not to say we did not try to do bad things to the french. if you have been to warsaw, that is also a hugely important
relationship for us. the reality is that for many people in europe, including people of your age, people in high school or university. the mobility, cross-border movement, cross-border friendships -- going to university in different places is a reality they take for granted. they don't know how much suffering went into that. the reality is also that, the franco german motor that ran europe for a long time is no longer enough to run europe. it is not accepted anymore. there are reasons it does not work internal to the relationship on a political level. frankly, the spanish, the swedes , the polls, the bulks would not accept that with good reason. they can expect a more
democratic way of decision-making in europe. the problem that we germans have is both the u.k. and french are going through moments. -- through inward looking moments. as a result, for the first time in our postwar history are presented with a situation where we have to become the de facto motor of europe. we are both -- people want us to lead and resent us for it. they both desirous to do this and they fear us. it is a difficult thing to square. i could give you a list of points i think we have failed at and some we have succeeded. but i do not think that this is tenable in the long run. >> in the unlikely event that great britain should decide to withdraw on june 23 two withdraw from the european community,
what will be the damage to the members? dr. stelzenmuller: the question was in the unlikely event the british secede from europe -- what would be the damage for the european project. or perhaps even to britain i would add, i sometimes worry that -- my worst nightmares i wonder if europe could have a civil war like the americans did. i hope we don't. i hope that is not a price for union. certainly no one will go to war against the brits. i don't like that on c-span, that i suggested that. [laughter] to be serious now of course we want the brits in the eu. my god. they are a sense of global mission.
their understanding of global trade, their understanding of global cultures. they are forward leading security policy. all of that has been a key part of making europe a key part -- their attitudes towards free trade are valuable elements. what i, as a lawyer, fear that a lot of the brexit advocates do not understand is how deeply britain has been shaped by and integrated into the european union, and what it would mean de facto to rip this organ out of the living organism. that would be substantial. i think that most brits or brits who are not specialist in european law, which i studied, think this is an signing a a treaty and we are
free to sail the high seas again. that is not the way it works. it is more like a state of the union leaving the union, striking out on its own. i suspect none of you think it would be a great idea, unless of course, it is texas, i understand that. [laughter] >> during your comments he referred to the united states -- the u.s. has made compromises, i think you mentioned turkey, russia, and saudi arabia. dr. stelzenmuller: not just the u.s.. >> you mentioned iran, would you include iran? compromises? dr. stelzenmuller: i am obviously aware that that meeting would be a sensitive topic. i will look at the watch. i am on the side that thinks that this iran deal is -- while it has issues, it is probably the least worst deal.
i think that the alternative being quite seriously muted which was a preemptive strike on iranian nuclear installations would have been disastrous. but i can assure you, for a while, that was a serious matter of debate in for policy circles. bailey, it was mooted seriously. if any of you know the. israeli debates, the israelis do not feel good about retiring -- including retiring [indiscernible] i think it will not have escaped anybody's noticed that a number of governments are falling over each other in order to make
deals with the iranians. that is not terribly pretty. has al think that iran society and an economy that, despite their incandescent anti-semitism and anti-zionis m, has a long tradition of welcoming jews -- not of israel, i grant you that, but iranian jews have been another matter. i have a greater hope for iranian society than i do, say, for saudi society, based on a very superficial, nonexpert sense of what might be going there and what my more expert friends tell me. that may be the slim argument for those views who find the whole idea of the agreement offensive and those of you who are planning to vote for ted cruz. and whose line on this i know.
look, this is like with russia. i think we need to stand up to russia and we need to stand up mulas.malaise -- the but the conundrum in life is that, unlike you, we are not on another we have to find a way of protecting israel and living with iran. we know where our sympathies lie, but we cannot just up and leave, sadly. so that is the conundrum of making policy in europe. it sometimes leads to uncomfortable moral compromises. but rest assured that there is a great deal of conversation about these issues with america, and i don't think -- my sense is that we are pretty much in line on many of the practicalities. >> thank you very much.